Lynndie England "Rumsfeld knew"

Mrs. England, we've listened to you for hours. And the whole time we've been asking ourselves: Where is your feeling of regret?

Looking back on it, if I could change it I would. I would have never met Graner, I never would have gone over there, I would have stayed in my little work area in Abu Ghraib, did what I had to do.

How did your relationship with Graner end?

We were in Camp Victory at Baghdad International Airport. It was February 5 and the investigation was already underway. About that time, he finally decided it was time to break off the relationship. He said, "It's over. We don't even have to talk about it." He had said that he was going to marry me. We were going to have kids. I was just so pissed off with him.

You were pregnant.

Yes, but I didn't know it.

Did you know that he was having an affair with Megan Ambuhl, one of the other accused soldiers, at the same time?

I only found that out at his trial. Megan and I were friends at the time. He married her later on.

Does your son Carter remind you of Graner?

Yes, I try not to think about it but it gets harder the older he gets. The more he grows, the more he looks like him.

What will you tell Carter about his parents and Abu Ghraib?

I don't know. I'm trying to get together a scrapbook right now. My Mom kept every single article. And I'll probably cut them out and put them in a scrapbook and let him look at that. I still don't know what I'm going to tell him about his father. I guess the truth.

The former Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, called you and your colleagues the "rotten apples" of the military. Bush claimed to be ashamed of what you did.

Well, back then I thought: How can they say that when it was happening all over Iraq. The same thing is happening in Guantanamo now and other places. We knew that our officers knew about it and our sergeants. We thought if they know then somebody else knows. And I really do still think that Rumsfeld knew what was going on. I mean he had been there while I was there at that prison. And if he was there I know he knew what was going on. How could he have not known? And Bush? He's the headman.

Do you feel more like a victim or an offender?

I feel more like a puppet. First I was played by Graner. Then the media portrayed me as their puppet so they could flash my picture out over and over and over and over again. And then I became the government's puppet because they didn't back me up, or remotely take my side. They just agreed with what the media said.

Saying you were a puppet again makes you sound like a victim.

Okay, I do take responsibility. I was dumb enough to do all that. And to think that it was okay because of the other officers and the orders that were coming down. But when you're in the military you automatically do what they say. It's always, "Yes Sir, No Sir." You don't question it. And now they're saying, "Well, you should have questioned it."

There is talk about new pictures that are even harsher than the ones we know.

I know there were some harsher pictures they had at the time of the trial that the media decided not to expose.

What was on those pictures?

You see the dogs biting the prisoners. Or you see bite marks from the dogs. You can see MPs holding down a prisoner so a medic can give him a shot. If those had been made public at the time, then the whole world would have looked at those and not at mine.

Was Abu Ghraib the turning point of the war?

I actually thought about that before the pictures came out. I thought, "I hope this never comes out because it'll change the way people see the war. And the way people see America." And it did, it changed everything. I felt bad about that. I felt sorry. And I still do.

Did you think three years was the correct punishment for your crime?

No. It's ridiculous. It was much too long. If you look at my charge sheet, I was only charged and convicted for posing in pictures. Not for physically abusing prisoners.

How were you treated in prison?

Literally, it was like flies on shit, man. When I got there, they were all like, "Oh my God." They loved me. I was like a celebrity.

How do you live with the burden today?

I don't know. I try to look forward and not to think about it anymore. If I think about it, then I get down; I get feeling sorry and pissed off.

Do the pictures still haunt you?

Hell, I'm seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist. I'm on antidepressants and meds for anxiety. If it wasn't for that I'd probably lose my mind. I just get freaked out. I'm paranoid as hell at people.

So it's getting worse over time?

According to the psychiatrist, yes. I'm going to blame it on my Mom because right now she is flipping out over little shit, and I don't know why. She tells me almost every day how she had to put up with my son for a year and a half because of what I did to get myself in trouble when I wasn't there for him and I was in prison.

But you still live with your parents.

I want to get a house of my own but at the same time I'm scared to do that because what if somebody finds out where I live and they're against me and they try to do some shit. I can't protect Carter.

It sounds as if you are a prisoner. A prisoner of yourself and your own actions?

Now it's like I have to think about everything I do before I do it.

What plans do you have for the future? What are your hopes and dreams?

Living a normal life. Not having to worry about looking over my shoulder every day, about thinking ten years down the road somebody's going to recognize me and come shoot me because of something I did when I was young and stupid and in love. I'm scared to death because Carter starts school this fall. What if somebody doesn't like me, and kidnaps him because of what I did.

Have you ever thought about going away to some place where people don't know you?

I can't go anywhere because everyone recognizes me.

You've let your hair grow.

But everybody recognizes my face and my voice. I even dyed my hair, but even then people still recognized me. They even recognize me when I'm wearing sunglasses and a hat.

So that's why you stay here in West Virginia?

Well I know more people support me here than are against me. It's that one crazy one that you don't know that finds out where you live and comes after you.